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[00:00]<pfrcnnus>Oops, dumb question on my part. Sorry.
[00:03]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>I'm wondering how Array.Sort works since the array it receives is not passed with "ref" in front of it
[00:06]<lnvnzxu>work_metaperl: are you under the impression it needs to allocate a new array for the sorted result?
[00:06]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>peterhu, how does it in-place sort? Are arrays always passed by reference?
[00:07]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>I didn't see that in my "Learning C# 2005" book from ora
[00:10]<lnvnzxu>work_metaperl: Array is a reference type and therefore always pass by reference (pass pointer by value, natively speaking); the ref keyword on a reference type parameter allows you to modify the reference itself (passes the pointer by reference, natively speaking)
[00:11]<lnvnzxu>as Sort is a method of Array, it has access to the internal workings of Array
[00:11]<lnvnzxu>it can therefore modify the elements directly without allocating a new array
[00:11]<lnvnzxu>how it does it is implmentation specific
[00:11]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>peterhu, oh I see. This book did not explain the reference type concept. I only saw it use ref in conjunction with passing integers up to this point
[00:11]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>but as a former C programmer, it makes perfect sense
[00:11]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>and repeatedly failing C++ programmer :)
[00:12]<lnvnzxu>integers are value types, which have a pass by value semantic; the ref keyword on value types passes a reference instead
[00:12]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>I think I'm too old to grok C++... maybe in my younger days. But only clean simple languages like C# will do now :)
[00:12]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>peterhu, yes I now understand that
[00:12]<lnvnzxu>cool
[00:13]<rxrcr>I once heard a 40y/o cyclist say, "you're never too old until you say you're too old"
[00:14]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>heh
[00:14]<rxrcr>He'll probably change his tune once he turns 80
[00:14]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>and since I have said it, I am too old
[00:14]<lnvnzxu>my father's friend still runs marathons in his 90s
[00:14]<sxdzz>alright all... gonna try and catch some z's
[00:15]<sxdzz>ciao all...
[00:15]<lnvnzxu>people are weird =)
[00:15]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>ciao
[00:15]<lnvnzxu>later shmar
[00:15]<rxrcr>peterhu, awesome. I only hope I can not be miserable when I'm 90 :)
[00:15]<lnvnzxu>finally, the day has come to purge our source base of managed extensions for c++
[00:15]<lnvnzxu>w00t
[00:15]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>is anyone using visual team studio here?
[00:16]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>and/or source safe?
[00:17]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>I'm learning under Express, but when our SQL Server 2005 enterprise edition gets here, I will probably upgrade to something along those lines... we have geographically separated developers (PA and FL), so Team seems reasonable
[00:18]<-- svgvsdyzgjvr__ xr>/dev/null")
[00:19]<zj2nzv2>I used to use SourceSafe but we moved over to Perforce.
[00:19]<lnvnzxu>work_metaperl: sadly, source safe would be a step up from what we're using
[00:19]<lnvnzxu>blech
[00:19]<rxrcr>peterhu, you're kidding?
[00:19]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>you wish you had it?
[00:19]<zj2nzv2>The new company I started with a week ago uses CVS... unfortunately. I hope we can move to Subversion eventually.
[00:19]<lnvnzxu>unfortunately, no
[00:20]<lnvnzxu>we're currently stuck on some old version of starteam
[00:20]<lnvnzxu>i'm trying to get them to dump for svn
[00:20]<rxrcr>peterhu, wow
[00:21]<lnvnzxu>it doesn't suffer database corruption like SS does, but good god it's horrid
[00:21]<lnvnzxu>no atomic commits, limited change set support, UI from 10 years ago heh
[00:21]<jdvgdjgcgd>SS is terrible
[00:21]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>oh yeah?
[00:21]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>hmm
[00:21]<lnvnzxu>plus, it has a tendancy, even if you just rename a file and then back, to report everything as modified
[00:21]<azyfm>can you have any kind of change set support without atomic commits?
[00:23]<lnvnzxu>actually, i suppose you can't
[00:23]<lnvnzxu>no wonder we don't use them, the product does not appear to support it
[00:23]<lnvnzxu>i try not to dig to deep into this thing, as it disgusts me to the point of fustration
[00:23]<lnvnzxu>i miss source depot so much
[00:24]<txnjzd>we are using svn
[00:24]<txnjzd>it's not ideal though, it needs more love than it is getting atm
[00:25]<kjr>I keep wondering why anyone wants to use CVS over SVN
[00:25]<txnjzd>tool support
[00:25]<kjr>what, CVS supports all the tools that use it? ;)
[00:26]<txnjzd>there are still apps with integrated cvs but not integrated svn
[00:27]<txnjzd>thankfully, the number is decreasing :-)
[00:27]<kjr>yeah
[00:28]<txnjzd>also, svn on windows is a bit flakey
[00:28]<txnjzd>it seems to break itself to the point of a cleanup not working fairly often for me
[00:28]<kjr>what? how so?
[00:29]<kjr>I dunno about the daemon on windows, never tried that
[00:29]<kjr>but the clients work fine
[00:29]<txnjzd>this is the client
[00:29]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>hmm, scratch svn, scratch source safe... darcs works pretty good. better than monotone
[00:29]<kjr>which client
[00:29]<txnjzd>both tortoise and command line
[00:29]<kjr>never have any problems w/ tortoise or any of the other clients
[00:29]<kjr>(smartcvs or whatever?)
[00:30]<jdvgdjgcgd>i've run the daemon on windows
[00:30]<txnjzd>I have issues with _svn/entries files becoming marked read only, and svn then saying it can't overwrite them
[00:30]<jdvgdjgcgd>for svn
[00:30]<jdvgdjgcgd>win2k3 server adn windows xp
[00:30]<rxrcr>Kog, the svn daemon runs great on windows. And some shmoe made a service wrapper for it
[00:30]<txnjzd>(lots of them, randomly, all over the server)
[00:30]<txnjzd>*tree
[00:30]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>svn--
[00:30]<kjr>chaka: never had a reason to use the windows daemon
[00:30]<jdvgdjgcgd>just delete the repo and check it out again
[00:30]<kjr>work_metaperl: nothing wrong with SVN
[00:30]<txnjzd>I now have scripts that automatically go around attrib -R ing
[00:30]<wjzc_dnvzfnzf>oh
[00:31]<jdvgdjgcgd>that sucks
[00:31]<kjr>Theory: I dunno, I never have any issues... and I use it on ~15 projects
[00:31]<rxrcr>Kog, easier to get MSIT to support a random win2k3 server box than a linux machine :)
[00:31]<txnjzd>it may be in part caused by our server being a bit flakey
[00:31]<kjr>chaka: except, we're a unix shop
[00:31]<kjr>my boss wants to buy a $6000 AD box though
[00:31]<kjr>not... that he knows what AD does
[00:32]<rxrcr>heh
[00:32]<txnjzd>strawpoll: fsfs vs dbfs?
[00:32]<kjr>I told him we can control the warehouse at the group level with it
[00:32]<kjr>Theory: I think I usually use fsfs
[00:32]<rrdquppnq>should i do "obj.prop = dosomething(obj);" or "dosomething(ref obj);" ?
[00:32]<kjr>I know Berkdb had issues
[00:32]<kjr>jaybuffe2: depends on the behavior

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