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[22:13]<txnjzd>but I don't know enough to say for sure
[22:14]<vynvyv>Kog: so do you use the "long form"?
[22:14]<kjr>long form?
[22:14]<vynvyv>B : A, I
[22:14]<kjr>nope
[22:15]<vynvyv>alright
[22:15]<kjr>if people can't read my design, I got bigger problems
[22:15]<vynvyv>ok so i'll just assume that's considered unnecessary in both C# and java
[22:16]<vynvyv>so, moving on
[22:16]<vynvyv>oh and thanks
[22:19]<rrd2uppnv>is it typical to create a class just for displaying custom objects in a datagridview ?
[22:26]<kjr>tieTYT: I'm not exactly the best person to ask about C# programming culture heh
[22:27]<vynvyv>Kog: oh
[22:29]<kjr>tieTYT: I write the least .NET stuff out of anyone in this channel
[22:35]<gxysvggz>instance = object?
[22:39]<nnzjpfrr>yeah, why?
[22:39]<nnzjpfrr>at least, usually...
[22:42]<mjzymygo>i-Nz: nope, generics whoops as every time
[22:42]<mjzymygo>although yes, reference based generics are slower than value based ones
[22:43]<mjzymygo>the reference based generics still whoops the ass off non generic collections.
[22:43]<kjr>Moridin8: I was gonna ask - but is it still faster than just casting
[22:43]<kjr>casting can't be THAT expensive
[22:44]<mjzymygo>Kog, it depends. casting on Littleendian memory is simple. on bigendian you have to do some bit shifting
[22:44]<kjr>erm, you mean converting between native endian and foreign endian
[22:44]<mjzymygo>no.
[22:44]<mjzymygo>for example
[22:45]<kjr>I make the example because not every x86 chip is little endian
[22:45]<mjzymygo>11001100 10101010 (Intel IBM PC ones are)
[22:45]<mjzymygo>sorry
[22:45]<mjzymygo>anyway
[22:45]<mjzymygo>cast that to a byte takes the MSB
[22:46]<mjzymygo>in big endian the bytes would be this way 10101010 11001100
[22:46]<kjr>no, not all Intel chips are little endian
[22:46]<kjr>Moridin8: I know how endianess works
[22:46]<mjzymygo>so to do the op would take X<<8 then grab
[22:46]<mjzymygo>IBM PC ones are
[22:46]<kjr>no
[22:46]<kjr>most are now neutral
[22:46]<mjzymygo>which aren't?
[22:46]<kjr>emt64 and amd64 are both neutral
[22:46]<mjzymygo>hehe
[22:47]<mjzymygo>I was talking 32bit...
[22:47]<mjzymygo>can;t speak for 64
[22:47]<kjr>x86 is x86
[22:47]<mjzymygo>;)
[22:47]<kjr>but, at what point is a cast re-ordering the byte order...
[22:47]<mjzymygo>only needed on bigendian
[22:47]<kjr>I guess there are types that care about such things
[22:47]<kjr>I could see a simulator doing that
[22:48]<kjr>s/simulator/emulator
[22:49]<mjzymygo>dude.. I just checked some specs
[22:49]<mjzymygo>AMD64 are all littleendien
[22:49]<mjzymygo>let me see if I can find a web url
[22:51]<kuggys>I'm dealing with this crappy server... and I can't figure out why it's acting flakey. Guaah!
[22:52]<kjr>heh, they're neutral
[22:52]<fyfuym-syfggag>night all
[22:54]<mjzymygo>http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/openbsd/2005-01/0571.html
[22:55]<mjzymygo>http://etud.epita.fr/~bevand_m/papers/md5-amd64.html
[22:57]<kjr>if those links are true, that means the OpenBSD team was lying to me
[22:57]<kjr>strange
[22:57]<mjzymygo>IBM PC chips have always been little-endian
[22:57]<mjzymygo>there is a hack to simulate big endian that some C++ libs use
[22:58]<kjr>I know that the original X86 were indeed little endian
[22:58]<mjzymygo>but it the C++ libs throw lots of bit shifts around
[22:58]<mjzymygo>I can't see any register to switch my AMD64's endianness either... no MSR (or the like) register (like IBM powerpc)
[22:58]<kjr>but if a chip were neutral endian, and it were running a little endian OS - then reason stands that it would behave in little endian fashion
[23:00]<mjzymygo>ahhh
[23:00]<mjzymygo>it was the Itanium that could switch
[23:00]<mjzymygo>AMD stuck with LittleEndian
[23:02]<mjzymygo>and the opteron is neutral
[23:02]<mjzymygo>the AMD64 isn't
[23:03]<kjr>welp, it looks like the OpenBSD team lied to me
[23:03]<kjr>and here I was thinking I could trust them
[23:03]<mjzymygo>Well, opterons are neutral...
[23:03]<mjzymygo>maybe thats the confusion?
[23:09]<kjr>aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh, he didn't even format it
[23:09]<kjr>bastard.
[23:09]<kuggys>My code seems to be running slow... I'm wondering if there's some kind of blocking operation that's happening because I'm doing both network and Sql. I looked, and I didn't really see anything that should be blocking. Is there any tools that could tell me?
[23:09]<azyfm>wth does "neutral endian" mean?
[23:09]<azyfm>that's like saying an array is sorted neutrally
[23:10]<mjzymygo>Arild, it means that the instruction set supports big and little endian, and how it uses the data is set somewhere by turning on a flag in a status register
[23:10]<azyfm>I see
[23:10]<mjzymygo>(on the powerPC the flag resides in the MSR register IIRC)
[23:10]<azyfm>strange word to use, still
[23:11]<mjzymygo>I always thought that too
[23:11]<azyfm>how about bi-endian?
[23:11]<rxrcr>dual-endian
[23:11]<rxrcr>heh mid-endian
[23:12]<mjzymygo>cool
[23:12]<mjzymygo>apparently AMD64 and all amd chips are all littlendian, but they can convert to big endian for you to save you the work
[23:14]<mjzymygo>CBW, CWDE, CDQE, CWD, CDQ and CQO asm intructions do it
[23:14]<mjzymygo>but you have to convert back to operate on them
[23:14]<mjzymygo>so kog... your dude an OpenBSD talks shit
[23:14]<kjr>Moridin8: I sincerely doubt it
[23:14]<mjzymygo>http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/24592.pdf
[23:15]<kjr>if your assertion is he's wrong, that may be
[23:15]<kjr>but I doubt he goes around "talking shit"
[23:15]<z2zzcnv>ASP related question... sorry don't know where else to ask... is it possible to have a GridView use CSS entirely instead of tables?
[23:16]<z2zzcnv>I understand that a gridview is really designed to present tabular data... which tables are fine for... but still, heh.

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