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[03:12]<rmfry>I haven't done RoR in quite some time, so I'll let you read the documentation on it
[03:12]<rmfry>www.rubycentral.org
[03:13]<rmfry>www.rubycentral.com/book/index.html rather
[03:13]<rmfry>it's quite sexy once you get started
[03:13]<dnzs>i think this is a more basic problem that's more of a lack of html knowledge than anything else. in a frameset, will the browser request only the frames it hasn't cached?
[03:14]<rmfry>if you want to load one frame of dynamic content, you can do it with just html
[03:14]<rmfry><a href="frame.html" target="name_of_frame_you_want_it_loaded_in">
[03:15]<rmfry>the name is picked when you set up the frames
[03:15]<dnzs>Adlai: as i said, i've only done basic html. there used to be a stigma that frames == bad. does that still hold?
[03:15]<dnzs>can you load pages into divs?
[03:15]<rmfry>frames aren't the best way to do things
[03:15]<rmfry>you can load pages in to divs, but that's called ajax
[03:16]<rmfry>it's a bit advanced and it'll take a fair bit of reading to get, but it's lots of fun and terribly powerful once you do get a handle on it
[03:16]<rmfry>the basic concept is that you name the div with an id attribute
[03:17]<rmfry>then you use javascript to request a specific bit of content, and provide special functions that make sure it gets loaded in the div with the id you specify
[03:17]<rmfry>I haven't done it in long enough, nor did I ever quite know it as well as I should to be teaching the finer aspects or the syntax, but that's easily googlable
[03:17]<dnzs>Adlai: i know the basics of ajax too. i'm weighing my options :)
[03:18]<rmfry>I'd go with ajax, myself
[03:18]<rwpuf>you could just use an include too, couldn't you?
[03:18]<rmfry>frames are ugly
[03:18]<rmfry>not quite
[03:18]<rmfry>that would save you the extra typing, but it wouldn't help your server any
[03:18]<rwpuf>mm.
[03:18]<rmfry>and it's "require()" in php
[03:19]<rmfry>but all that does is replace the "require();" line with the text of the file, and it does that when you ask for the page that includes the require(); line
[03:19]<rmfry>ajax would fix both problems
[03:20]<dnzs>Adlai: actually ajax sounds a bit scary for navigation. you'd end up with one php/perl script/servlet/jsp whatever controlling every page of the app
[03:20]<dnzs>and have only one page of html
[03:20]<dnzs>with navigation, etc
[03:20]<rmfry>depends how you want to structure it
[03:20]<dnzs>which isn't really navigation, just a bunch of Javascript
[03:21]<rmfry>ajax is a lot more software-engineering-type intensive
[03:21]<rmfry>you have to lay it out more beforehand, and know what you're doing
[03:21]<dnzs>the latter is the problem :)
[03:21]<rmfry>using a framework like Ruby on Rails helps you organize things and keep track of it all, which is why I suggested it
[03:22]<dnzs>Adlai: bit hard. already designed and implemented a database schema, got up to snuff with tomcat, and brushed up on my servlets and jsps
[03:22]<dnzs>too much of a learning curve right now
[03:23]<dnzs>this is MVC or 3-tier. i guess i can put off the V part and worry about the controller for now while i mull this over
[03:36]<dnzs>thanks for the advice
[04:44]<brmqurgvr>Anyone feel like helping me with an IE Bug?
[04:45]<brmqurgvr>http://www.badquanta.com/photoworthy/templates/0001.html <-- The shipping section usually dosen't show up on my copy of IE and if you hit refresh enough it will randomly appear... I can't figure out why.
[05:03]<cbg>Hi :) anyone know why my input field on a html form might be limiting the number of chars I can enter, when I didn't speicify a maxlength?
[05:06]<cjddzgdlzjdlv>..
[05:06]<cjddzgdlzjdlv>CBG: url?
[05:07]<cbg>At http://www.becounted.info/gb/gb2.php I can enter as many chars as I like into the site field, but only 21 chars seem to be submitted with the form.
[05:10]<cbg>Well, I need to sleep, perhaps I'll work it out tomorrow.
[05:11]<cjddzgdlzjdlv>heh
[05:11]<cjddzgdlzjdlv>CBG: seems to be a server sided issue, since you obviously can enter more than 21
[05:12]<cbg>K, thanks CommandPrompt.
[05:58]<rsvyrdrvc>`html li
[05:58]<rtfs>html li: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#edef-LI
[07:42]<cxzysc1t>anyone here run a webserver and use cpanel?
[07:44]<mrmfyfjv>I use CPanel, on the webspace I pay for
[09:10]<zzvnzmumn>If you set a font on a web page and the system didnt have it, I assume it would default to someting else
[09:19]<zzvnzmumn>yes I think so
[09:22]<mrmfyfjv>yes, it does
[09:22]<mnzmzjjv>`css font-family
[09:22]<rtfs>css font-family: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#propdef-font-family
[09:24]<mnzmzjjv>you could further define what kind of font, if the system didn't have your desired specific font, via the generic-family
[09:30]<zzvnzmumn>well I just tried to set the font to the ones on my system it works fine
[09:31]<zzvnzmumn>and it defaults to the default font if it can't locate it
[09:31]<zzvnzmumn>I'm not sure what might be great reasons for chaning the fonts anyway
[09:32]<zzvnzmumn>but you should expect most stystem to support times new roman, courier new, and some kinf of ariel
[09:35]<mnzmzjjv>text-based browsers! =D
[09:36]<mrmfyfjv>caverdude, use "serif" & "sans-serif", they'll work anywhere, and (generally) default to Times New Roman & Ariel on systems w/ those fonts
[09:36]<mnzmzjjv>it's Arial, not Ariel
[09:36]<mrmfyfjv>it's an overused MS font, that's all I know. :)
[09:38]<zzvnzmumn>looks like there is not font sizes above 7
[09:38]<zzvnzmumn>hrm
[09:38]<mnzmzjjv>font-sizes above 7? o.O
[09:38]<mnzmzjjv>i can do 1000px!
[09:39]<zzvnzmumn>Madpilot well I was trying to figure out if there were choices that worked on all systems
[09:39]<mnzmzjjv>the generic font family works on all modern browser =)
[09:39]<zzvnzmumn>if I set size="7" or size="8" up to size="50" it seems to make no changes
[09:39]<mnzmzjjv>+ one legacy IE browser
[09:39]<mrmfyfjv>caverdude, the generics always work, but the specific font that gets used will vary between OS and even between brosers
[09:39]<mrmfyfjv>browsers, even
[09:39]<mnzmzjjv>caverdude: you're using <font>?
[09:40]<mnzmzjjv>>__<
[09:40]<zzvnzmumn>deadroot ya
[09:40]<mnzmzjjv>don't. that's so 1900s (me ignores that computers weren't invented then)
[09:41]<mnzmzjjv>`css font-size
[09:41]<rtfs>css font-size: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#propdef-font-size
[09:41]<mnzmzjjv>`css font
[09:41]<rtfs>css font: http://w3.org/TR/CSS21/fonts.html#propdef-font
[09:41]<zzvnzmumn>heh
[09:41]<zzvnzmumn>ok
[09:41]<mnzmzjjv>=)
[09:49]<zzvnzmumn>so html font sizes basically corrisopond to the <h1><h1> tags?
[09:49]<zzvnzmumn>hehe
[09:49]<zzvnzmumn>except for bold
[09:51]<20rv>No.
[09:51]<mrmfyfjv>no, using CSS to define your fonts is far more flexible than that
[09:53]<mrmfyfjv>caverdude, have you worked with actual CSS at all?
[09:54]<zzvnzmumn>Wow you can actually assign text as editable
[09:54]<zzvnzmumn>hrm

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