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[16:31]<mxf>where can i get the full tutorial for html
[16:31]<mjzwzzm>dhq: I don't know any decent tutorials, but the spec <http://w3.org/TR/html4/> is pretty readable.
[16:32]<wg22gg>probably the last readable spec they produced
[16:32]<wg22gg>even has an index
[16:36]<mxf_> need the html book online
[16:37]<wg22gg>dhq_: what HTML book?
[16:37]<mxf_>webben: well wanna learn html so need some place to start
[16:38]<wg22gg>you're better off with the spec
[16:38]<wg22gg>like i say that spec was readable
[16:38]<wg22gg>and the books are usually wrong
[16:38]<wg22gg>so then you have to unlearn what you learnt
[16:39]<mxf_>webben: so how to learn it
[16:39]<wg22gg>dhq_: 1) download a decent editor (e.g. jedit, vim -- anything with syntax highlighting and unicode supprot)
[16:39]<wg22gg>2) think of a page to create
[16:40]<wg22gg>3) go through the spec, using the bits you need to create your page
[16:40]<mxf_>webben: i am on linux so i guess there must be a built in one
[16:40]<wg22gg>4) save your page to your desktop
[16:40]<wg22gg>dhq_: almost certainly
[16:40]<wg22gg>what distro?
[16:40]<wg22gg>5) open the page in your browser
[16:40]<mxf_>kubuntu
[16:40]<wg22gg>it's that simple
[16:40]<wg22gg>dhq_: then you'll probably have kedit (bleh) and vim
[16:40]<mxf_>no i dont know how to write the scrript
[16:40]<wg22gg>possibly also quanta which you might look into later
[16:41]<mxf_>ok
[16:41]<wg22gg>stick with kedit if you're a beginner
[16:41]<wg22gg>it's the closest to notepad
[16:41]<mxf_>ok
[16:41]<wg22gg>but still has syntax highlighting
[16:41]<wg22gg>vim is better, but you're trying to learn html atm not vim
[16:41]<mxf_>k
[16:42]<mxf_>so from where do i start to learn as i have no material to study from
[16:43]<wg22gg>dhq_: begin with this: http://www.webstandards.org/learn/reference/templates/html401s/
[16:43]<wg22gg>fill it in with some paragraphs (that's the p element)
[16:44]<wg22gg>and begin with a heading (that's the h1 element) ... all this goes inside the body section
[16:44]<wg22gg>but that's all explained in the spec
[16:44]<wg22gg>get reading :)
[16:44]<mxf_>i dont have the spec
[16:44]<wg22gg>dhq_: dorward gave you the link earlier
[16:45]<mxf_>http://www.webstandards.org/learn/reference/templates/html401s/
[16:45]<wg22gg>http://www.webstandards.org/learn/reference/templates/html401s/
[16:45]<wg22gg>sorry
[16:45]<wg22gg>http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/
[16:45]<wg22gg>there we go
[16:46]<wg22gg>you can check you've got the syntax right by uploading your page to:
[16:46]<wg22gg>http://validator.w3.org/
[16:46]<wg22gg>dhq_: the other thing, as you've just started
[16:46]<wg22gg>when writing your page
[16:46]<mxf_>yes
[16:46]<wg22gg>don't think about styling it
[16:47]<mxf_>k
[16:47]<wg22gg>think about what each element is in terms of how it structures the document
[16:47]<wg22gg>and what it means
[16:47]<wg22gg>a heading is a heading (not big bold text)
[16:47]<wg22gg>a blockquote is a quotation (not some indented text)
[16:48]<wg22gg>some emphasized text is emphasized with <em> elements (not italicized)
[16:48]<wg22gg>you get the idea?
[16:48]<wg22gg>the styling is a completely separate issue
[16:48]<wg22gg>(and a completely different spec - CSS)
[16:49]<wg22gg>there are some "presentational" tags even in strict HTML -- please do yourself a favour and ignore them as far as possible
[16:56]<mxf_>webben: well how long will it take for me to learn html
[16:57]<wg22gg>dhq_: less time than it will take your to learn French ... perhaps longer than it will take you to learn Basic, though it shouldn't take long to grasp the fundamentals
[16:57]<wg22gg>but one's constantly learning new techniques, new browser bugs
[16:57]<wg22gg>new little bits of the spec you'd glossed over
[16:57]<wg22gg>(unless you have a photographic memory for these things)
[16:58]<wg22gg>dhq_: i think you can probably learn to write a simple webpage in about 10 minutes
[16:58]<wg22gg>dhq_: so it depends on what level of knowledge you're aiming
[16:58]<wg22gg>at
[16:58]<wg22gg>what exactly you want to achieve with your knowledge
[16:59]<wg22gg>what are you intending to create?
[16:59]<mxf_>well i learned to write a text in browser
[16:59]<wg22gg>sorry?
[16:59]<wg22gg>what do you mean?
[16:59]<mxf_>well i want to learn how to write my own script
[17:00]<wg22gg>that does what? script != html
[17:00]<wg22gg>you can embed a script in html which manipulates the html
[17:00]<wg22gg>but html itself is not a "script"
[17:00]<wg22gg>it's a markup language
[17:00]<mxf_>well alot to study buut i excatly dont have a clue
[17:00]<wg22gg>dhq_: we all begin there
[17:01]<wg22gg>dhq_: so are you learning for fun?
[17:01]<mxf_>well yes you could say
[17:01]<mxf_>as i build a website with a cms and now i want to do it by my self
[17:01]<wg22gg>dhq_: then you have a long road ahead of you
[17:02]<wg22gg>you'll need to have some understanding of at least HTML, CSS, JavaScript, and some sort of backend code and database
[17:02]<wg22gg>most people seem to start with php and mysql
[17:02]<wg22gg>and that's probably still the easiest option
[17:02]<wg22gg>but start with html
[17:03]<wg22gg>that's the bedrock
[17:04]<mxf_>webben: well i will learn html then will get back to you
[17:04]<wg22gg>well, feel free to ask if you have any questions :)
[17:05]<wg22gg>dhq_: actually, the other thing you should look into is getting yourself set up with a simple webserver
[17:05]<wg22gg>or some free hosting
[17:06]<wg22gg>that why when you hit a problem you can show the problem to others
[17:06]<wg22gg>but for really simple stuff you don't need that
[17:06]<wg22gg>(kubuntu should make apache2 really easy)
[17:07]<wg22gg>s/that why/that way/
[17:35]<mnpbdvn>hi guys, does someone a way to error check javascript/html with IE so i see why my page is not running ?

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