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[22:30]<wg22gg>and if you get the later right then your markup can potentially be reasonable
[22:30]<wg22gg>even with today's cms solutions
[22:30]<bugcrysc>ah, then the approach would be, creating my own website without using any wysiwyg, and then applygin cms to it?
[22:30]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, not really
[22:31]<bugcrysc>I saw a cms presentation, and webpages were created with those sysems from scratch..
[22:31]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, i think what you should do *now* is download a copy of wordpress
[22:31]<wg22gg>and play around with that
[22:31]<igmdbc>Hello. What is the * selector?
[22:31]<wg22gg>to get a vague idea of how these things work
[22:31]<wg22gg>IndyBC, selects everything
[22:31]<igmdbc>ok, thx
[22:31]<igmdbc>webben: :)
[22:31]<bugcrysc>webben, thank you for valuable info.. thats what I am going to do right now
[22:32]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, you'll see then how the task of creating daily content differs from the task of templating
[22:32]<wg22gg>and styling
[22:32]<wg22gg>and it will put you in some position to evaluate more complex cms's
[22:32]<wg22gg>there's a #wordpress channel if you need wordpress help
[22:33]<wg22gg>if you need help with making your templates valid etc. then there's here and #css and #web
[22:33]<wg22gg>IndyBC, weren't you the fellow with a query much earlier in the day about xhtml?
[22:33]<igmdbc>In application/xhtml+xml the body selector is replaced by the html selector?
[22:33]<igmdbc>webben: yes ;)
[22:33]<wg22gg>IndyBC, it's not that it's replaced per se
[22:33]<bnxy>Hi
[22:34]<igmdbc>webben: So?
[22:34]<wg22gg>http://www.benjaminhawkeslewis.com/www/xhtml/faq/backwards-compatibility/css
[22:34]<igmdbc>webben: ok, thanks
[22:34]<bnxy>I have a form with width: 100% and height: 100% inside a table cell, but its height do not fill 100% of the available space (in IE 6)... any ideas?
[22:35]<pwe>I included <!--#include virtual="/cgi-bin/bla.cgi" --> into a .html file to be loaded into a frame. It works with firefox on linux, but not with firefox or IE running on windows. Any ideas?
[22:35]<wg22gg>Behi: you need to set html and body at 100% height and width too
[22:36]<wg22gg>and set margin: 0; padding:0; on html,body, and table
[22:36]<bnxy>but webben, the form is inside a table cell...
[22:36]<bnxy>the code is here: http://erxz.com/pb/2967
[22:36]<wg22gg>oh sorry misread your Q
[22:36]<wg22gg>probably padding on the table cell?
[22:37]<wg22gg>or the form?
[22:37]<bnxy>In firefox the form is not stretched verticall even a bit :-?
[22:37]<bnxy>webben: actually I set margin: 0 and padding: 0 but it didn't work even then...
[22:37]<wg22gg>Behi: why should it stretch?
[22:37]<wg22gg>Behi, 100% = 100% of the container
[22:37]<wg22gg>the container is td
[22:37]<wg22gg>it shouldn't stretch td
[22:37]<bnxy>but the td's height is 300
[22:37]<igmdbc>webben: Can we use the * selector in CSS when using XHTML ?
[22:38]<bnxy>and I want the form to have a height of 300px
[22:38]<wg22gg>IndyBC, i believe so yes
[22:38]<igmdbc>webben: What's the difference between the * selector and the html selector?
[22:38]<igmdbc>webben: Oh, ok, I got it.
[22:38]<igmdbc>Never mind ;)
[22:39]<igmdbc>webben: Thanks again, for everything :)
[22:39]<wg22gg>IndyBC, no problem
[22:39]<wg22gg>Behi: your 100% rule is not on the form, it is on the p inside the form
[22:40]<wg22gg>Behi, so you've just told the p to be the full height of the form, you haven't told the form what height to be
[22:40]<bnxy>oh!
[22:40]<bnxy>let me fix it!
[22:40]<wg22gg>:)
[22:40]<bnxy>sorry webben ;)
[22:40]<wg22gg>np
[22:49]<bugcrysc>webben, I am exploring on my own.. I see that Wodpress is a blogging system, that means it produces personal webpages with diary-like information.. Now I am trying to find another recommended cms.. should an average cms let me to design virutally any look of my site, or will I most probably have to use only some templates defining the design of website?
[22:50]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, yes, the reason i'm pointing you to wordpress is not because it's the cms you want to use (it probably isn't)
[22:50]<wg22gg>but because it gives you some idea of how the tasks separate out into template code/css stylesheets/daily content
[22:50]<wg22gg>and because wordpress's markup and interface, while they leave a lot to be desired, are perhaps better than most
[22:51]<wg22gg>so it gives you a point of comparison
[22:51]<wg22gg>With regards to what a cms should allow you to do
[22:51]<wg22gg>Yes it should certainly allow you to customize heavily the look and feel of your site
[22:52]<wg22gg>It should not restrict you to a given set of templates.
[22:52]<bugcrysc>ah I see.. based what you write, you apparently have very good experience in HTML
[22:52]<wg22gg>But rather give you nice little functions outputing useful blocks of stuff to include in new templates
[23:24]<nnvrnx>on http://heavensreality.com, the radioblog that is in the sidebar whichis also in a iframe to the right, how do I keep it from refreshing everytime I click a link?
[23:26]<hrvrcn>keep what from refreshing?
[23:26]<hrvrcn>the page?
[23:26]<nnvrnx>no the white radioblog to the right of the page??
[23:26]<nnvrnx>it should be there anyways it's showing here in FF
[23:27]<hrvrcn>not seeing one
[23:27]<hrvrcn>ah
[23:27]<hrvrcn><= ie 4 life
[23:27]<hrvrcn>sry mate
[23:28]<hrvrcn>though
[23:28]<nnvrnx>how awful...
[23:28]<nnvrnx>lol
[23:28]<nnvrnx>its not showing in IE
[23:28]<hrvrcn>the whole page seems to refresh when i click a link
[23:28]<hrvrcn>you should get on that
[23:28]<hrvrcn>ajax it up
[23:28]<nnvrnx>i'm not sure if I understand the term ajax?
[23:28]<hrvrcn>its a trick with javascript to load content into a div
[23:28]<hrvrcn>so you don't reload the page
[23:28]<hrvrcn>you only load that div
[23:29]<hrvrcn>good example is gmail
[23:29]<hrvrcn>where you click links
[23:29]<hrvrcn>but on the mail changes
[23:29]<hrvrcn>the whole page doesn't load
[23:29]<hrvrcn>or google maps uses it to move the map around without reloading the page, just the new map segments
[23:30]<nnvrnx>Natake: I've never missed with it, is there someone, and somewhere I can get it, and find help in intergrating it with wordpress
[23:32]<hrvrcn>http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ajax+tutorial
[23:32]<hrvrcn>its all over
[23:32]<hrvrcn>its pretty simple
[23:33]<hrvrcn>might take you 2 or 3 hours to get the hang of it if you've never heard of it before, but the script is generally like 8 lines long, and once you understand it you'll use it all the time
[23:33]<hrvrcn>#ajax could probably recomend the best place to start
[23:36]<nnvrnx>Hatake: thank you much

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