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Log from #html at freenode 2006-09-01
[18:47]<mjzwzzm>candyban: No
[18:47]<rrgmd2rg>I know ... I'm currently still serving as text/html ... but it'll be easier in the future
[18:51]<znysyj>it's _wrong_ to server XHTML 1.1 as text/html
[18:51]<znysyj>and it's wrong to serve XHTML 1.0 as text/html
[18:51]<znysyj>s/server/serve
[18:51]<rrgmd2rg>reisio: I know ...
[18:52]<mjzwzzm>If you are writing XHTML that /can/ be served as text/html then its pointless using XHTML as you get no benefits over HTML.
[18:52]<rrgmd2rg>reisio: for the time being (until everything is proper xhtml ... and IE supports it) ... I'll be serving as text/html
[18:52]<znysyj>:p
[18:54]<gjfnrfyayjus>umm is it just me...
[18:54]<gjfnrfyayjus>or does this do not show any scrollbars: http://unfancy.ath.cx/
[18:54]<gjfnrfyayjus>in IE i mean^^
[18:56]<axjlyg>exit
[18:57]<axjlyg>haha
[18:57]<znysyj>!v http://unfancy.ath.cx/
[18:57]<rtfs>HTML: Not valid - Error: 1, http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://unfancy.ath.cx/
[18:57]<rtfs>CSS: Not valid - Errors: 3, Warnings: 4, http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http://unfancy.ath.cx/
[18:58]<gjfnrfyayjus>yeh thats because of #include <sex.h>
[18:58]<gjfnrfyayjus>i just included some file to see if it would work
[18:58]<gjfnrfyayjus>and as it seems there aint no scrollbars with IE :X
[18:58]<znysyj>you have two doctypes for gebus' sake
[19:00]<gjfnrfyayjus>ah; i fixed them stylesheet ones and off i go; thank you
[19:01]<gjfnrfyayjus>and reisio, that was because i did phpinfo(), which adds a complete html site.. changed that when i realized myself tho
[19:01]<gjfnrfyayjus>(error was in the stylesheet)
[19:02]<znysyj>gj
[19:02]<gjfnrfyayjus>this one url RTFS seems to provide has a stylesheet does doesn't seem to check out since overflow-y is not a legal attribute
[19:02]<wg22gg>"1.0 Adam." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Adamite
[19:02]<rrgmd2rg>Dorward: What is the benefit of serving xhtml as app/xml+xhtml over text/html? (not rendering if my page is not according to the specs is not really a feature)
[19:03]<wg22gg>candyban: What doctype are you using?
[19:03]<rrgmd2rg>webben: <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
[19:03]<rrgmd2rg>Or strict ... or XHTML 1.1
[19:03]<wg22gg>candyban: are you equipped to do any sort of content negotiation?
[19:04]<mjzwzzm>candyban: XHTML served as text/html is limited to the features available in HTML. This means that XHTML as text/html has only problems when compared to the same document expressed in HTML (since XHTML and HTML aren't really compatible). If you serve as application/xhtml+xml then you can make use of features that actually make XHTML useful - like mixing in elements from other namespaces.
[19:04]<wg22gg>candbyban: but if you want HTML browsers like IE to see your page, you'll need either to generate an HTML version as well, or transform your XHTML to HTML with XSLT
[19:05]<wg22gg>candyban: of course, the more mixing you do, the more alternate generation may be more appealing than transformation.
[19:05]<wg22gg>candyban: and the less mixing you do, the easier it will seem to just use HTML 4.01 in the first place
[19:06]<wg22gg>candbyban: depending on what actually generates your pages
[19:07]<wg22gg>candbyban: if your toolset means you have to use XHTML, and you still choose to serve as text/html, there's a boring list of guidelines you need to follow: http://www.benjaminhawkeslewis.com/www/xhtml/faq/backwards-compatibility/section-c
[19:07]<rrgmd2rg>webben: I generate my pages either by hand or I use some kind of web scripting language e.g. php, python, dtml (zope), ...
[19:07]<rrgmd2rg>btw. the scripts I write by hand as well ...
[19:09]<rrgmd2rg>The reason I started using xhtml (usually 1.0 strict or 1.1) is that it forced me to use css for formatting
[19:09]<wg22gg>candyban, here's a crude example of the sort of XSLT i'm talking about: http://pastebin.ca/157442
[19:09]<mjzwzzm>candyban: XHTML 1.0 and HTML 4.01 are identical save for syntax changes mandated by using XML. Neither has more or less support or need for CSS.
[19:10]<wg22gg>with certain limitations which i haven't fully scoped yet, that wll convert XHTML 1.x to HTML.
[19:10]<wg22gg>But they do have different support for CSS.
[19:10]<wg22gg>www.benjaminhawkeslewis.com/www/xhtml/faq/backwards-compatibility/css
[19:10]<wg22gg>just not useful differences
[19:11]<rrgmd2rg>Dorward: bgcolor="red" does not work in xhtml (actually, I never validated 4.01 Strict to be honest)
[19:11]<mjzwzzm>IIRC those differences were undone with a "Whoops. We really should make the special rules that apply to HTML also apply to XHTML" note. I might be wrong about that.
[19:11]<mjzwzzm>candyban: bgcolor="red" does work in XHTML
[19:12]<wg22gg>Dorward: Hmm. I think I've seen browser tests demonstrating the effect on browsers. So it's still worth knowing :(
[19:12]<sldvd>hi
[19:13]<znysyj>'lo spity
[19:13]<sldvd>i have a bit OT question, i'm looking for some simple way to develop web-base app, for managing customers, orders and invoices, and i'm not sure what options i have, so i thought you guys might know
[19:13]<rrgmd2rg>Dorward: when validating bgcolor="red" it says: there is no attribute "bgcolor".
[19:13]<wg22gg>candbyban: on what element?
[19:14]<mjzwzzm>!v http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/crap.xhtml
[19:14]<rtfs>HTML: Valid - http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/crap.xhtml
[19:14]<rtfs>CSS: Valid - http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http://dorward.me.uk/tmp/crap.xhtml
[19:15]<znysyj>candyban: it's a transitional thing
[19:15]<mjzwzzm>candyban: As I said - no differences between XHTML 1.0 and HTML 4.01 save for syntax changes mandated by the change to XML. (Well, there are one or two tiny other things, but they aren't really worth thinking about at present)
[19:15]<wg22gg>candbyban: do you have a link to your page?
[19:16]<wg22gg>candyban ^
[19:16]<rrgmd2rg>Doward: bgcolor does not validate in 4.01 either ... so perhaps you are right :o)
[19:17]<wg22gg>candbyban: you're clearly putting it on the wrong element
[19:17]<wg22gg>http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/index/attributes.html
[19:17]<rrgmd2rg>webben: I'm currently updating one of our servers: http://nmc.eionet.europa.eu
[19:17]<mjzwzzm>Or you using Strict.
[19:17]<mjzwzzm>you are*
[19:17]<wg22gg>he said he was using transitional
[19:17]<rrgmd2rg>Dorward: wrong element ...
[19:17]<wg22gg>thought so :)
[19:19]<rrgmd2rg>crap ... I think I broke something ... search is no longer working ... ah well ... that's for monday
[19:27]<rrgmd2rg>Dorward: you've contributed to CSS3? :o)
[19:27]<mjzwzzm>candyban: Tiny little bit of pointing out the obvious
[19:28]<mjzwzzm>Not that anyone seems to have noticed it was obvious even now.
[19:28]<rrgmd2rg>Perhaps I should ask this in css, but will it be possible to have text at a certain angle? ... e.g. 90 degrees or 180 degrees (upside down) ...
[19:28]<mjzwzzm>No
[19:29]<rrgmd2rg>just an "angle" attribute should make life soo much nicer and easier when writing a page
[19:30]<rrgmd2rg>no (eye)candy for me appearently in css3
[19:41]<rmzyrrg>when i want to place a .PNG picture with a transparant white background in Internet Explorer it makes the transparant gray! Does someone know how to solv it?
[19:42]<rmzyrrg>It functions well in Firefox
[19:44]<grgj2jv>Adriaan: Do you only need GIF-like transparency?
[19:44]<rmzyrrg>right
[19:45]<grgj2jv>Adriaan: Check if your image editor has an option to save as PNG-8
[19:45]<grgj2jv>You're currently saving it as PNG-24, and IE6 doesn't support transparency correctly in that mode.
[19:45]<rmzyrrg>Nanobot, ok :)
[19:45]<rmzyrrg>ok
[19:46]<grgj2jv>Also, if you editor saves the image with gamma correction information (Photoshop always does), IE will show the image slightly darker than it should be
[19:46]<grgj2jv>*your
[19:50]<rmzyrrg>I got photoshop yes :)
[19:50]<rmzyrrg>anyway i cannot find the option to convert 24 to 8
[19:50]<rmzyrrg>but im searching :)
[19:51]<grgj2jv>Adriaan: Use Save As For Web
[19:52]<rmzyrrg>Nanobot, found, I will try,
[19:53]<rmzyrrg>Nanobot, works charming, thank you very much :)
[19:53]<grgj2jv>Sure :)
[20:08]<xy>need help
[20:08]<xy>can any1?
[20:08]<xy>im trying to do a backround for a website, its in my pictures folder.. named sand.jpg... what would i use?
