IRC Logs

Network: freenode Channel: #html

	Enter your search terms Submit search form
	Web www.irclog.org

[00:44]<sz2zygzow>sto cercando di creare un piccolo menu'... ho creato una tabella con 4 celle e all'interno di queste 4 celle c'è il rispettivo link. Vorrei fare in modo tale che quando il puntatore del mouse è sopra uno di questi link il colore della cella cambi e che il link fosse cliccabile anche senza che il puntatore sia posizionato sopra il testo ma all'interno della cella
[00:44]<sz2zygzow>qualcuno puo' aiutarmi?
[00:47]<bugcrysc>Please, take a look at www.softimage.com. There are article headlines - a color behind text goes from gray to white. Is that possible to do it mathematically, with the color input provided via html? should js be used for that?
[00:50]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Just HTML? No. HTML + CSS + JavaScript - yes, but it would be a pretty expensive operation. This really is a job for an image.
[00:50]<wg22gg>sabrina81: you should not be using a table to create a menu
[00:51]<wg22gg>sabrina81: you should probably be using <ul> or <ol> not <table>
[00:51]<wg22gg>in good browsers like firefox you can use the pseudo-element :hover
[00:52]<bugcrysc>Dorward, hello... :-)
[00:52]<wg22gg>oh dear, there's no italian translation of CSS2 :(
[00:52]<wg22gg>sabrina81, http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/selector.html#dynamic-pseudo-classes
[00:52]<sz2zygzow>ok but how can i do to make my link like this menu' (www.gentoo.it)?
[00:52]<bugcrysc>Dorward, yeah, the site solves that with image.. I was thinking, how nice it would be to let to define what color should be calculated...
[00:53]<bugcrysc>Dorward, would it take long to render that gradient?
[00:53]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: You could have some influence if you had a translucent PNG images against a solid background colour - but then MSIE gives you a world of pain.
[00:53]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: You'd have to dynamically generate and position a large number of (probably div) elements, each with a different background colour.
[00:55]<wg22gg>is there a nice italian resource about "no tables for layout"
[00:56]<bugcrysc>Dorward, ah I see.. although it is doable, and very easy for another browsers, IE would probably be a biggest obstacle and would create biggest compatibility troubles.
[00:57]<wg22gg>sabrina81, http://www.fmline.com/usabilita/css_vs_tabella.html
[00:57]<bugcrysc>Dorward, therefore, it would require the most workload to adjust it for IE. is that correct?
[00:58]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Depends on what "it" is. The insane-div-flood would work pretty much the same way on all modern graphical browsers. Dealing with translucent images would require work arounds for IEs broken PNG support.
[00:58]<wg22gg>hmm no link from the normal translations page but
[00:58]<wg22gg>sabrina81, http://www.diodati.org/w3c/css2/selector.html#dynamic-pseudo-classes
[01:00]<sz2zygzow>tnk u very much
[01:04]<wg22gg>hurray for i18n :)
[01:33]<bugcrysc>is here anybody willing to help me to analyze html code? I woudl like to go through code of main page of www.softimage.com, and ask several questions about it.
[01:39]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: www.softimage.com really is not written well at all. I wouldn't suggest using it to learn from.
[01:40]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, i say the same
[01:41]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, you're much better off choosing a cms, then going hunting for valid templates for that
[01:41]<wg22gg>then customizing those to suit
[01:42]<bugcrysc>webben, yes indeed you are correct.. that was my approach..
[01:43]<bugcrysc>webben, I have drupal installed and configured..
[01:44]<bugcrysc>but yeah, drupal does not support drop down menus, I would like to know how to create articles in such nice rounded rectangles, etc.. Till now I havent time to learn HTML, but now it will be beneficial to me to understand it a bit
[01:44]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, i suggest you go to #drupal and ask for a validating (X)HTML layout
[01:44]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, do not try to learn html from softimage
[01:44]<wg22gg>read the HTML 4.01 spec
[01:44]<wg22gg>or at least skim it
[01:44]<wg22gg>it's the best resource there is
[01:45]<bugcrysc>yeah, I am no #drupal, #drupal-support, #drupal-themes atm.. :-)
[01:45]<bugcrysc>*on
[01:45]<wg22gg>that and css1
[01:45]<wg22gg>http://www.w3.org/TR/html401
[01:45]<wg22gg>http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS1
[01:45]<bugcrysc>what about: http://htmldog.com/reference/htmltags/div/
[01:46]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Rounded corners is a presentation issue so its a job for CSS, not HTML. Its fairly trivial with the CSS border-radius property, but its proposed for CSS 3 and browser support isn't that wide yet. The usual trick is to have four blocks instead of one, set zero margin and padding on them, and have a non-repeating background image each - each one being a different corner.
[01:46]<bugcrysc>well, just htmldog.com :-)
[01:46]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, i don't know about htmldog ... others may have an opinion though
[01:46]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Given that it claims xml:lang is an optional attribute in HTML ... I'm not impressed.
[01:47]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK: the html4 and css1 specs are probably the last human-readable specifications produced by the W3C
[01:47]<wg22gg>i suggest you take advantage of that fact
[01:48]<wg22gg>they also have the advantage of being 1) largely supported by browsers and 2) authoritative
[01:48]<bugcrysc>webben, good... All I want is to have nice site that would open fast and have dynamic content.. so I will try to use drupal with combination of html and css
[01:49]<bugcrysc>is that softimage site in accordance to html4 and css1?
[01:49]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: No
[01:50]<bugcrysc>I will ask for a validating X(HTML)layout.. could I kindly ask what is it, so I am not completely stupit, if I ask what I need?
[01:50]<bugcrysc>sorry for those small mistakes
[01:51]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Valid means that the document conforms to the subset of the (X)HTML specification that is expressed by the DTD (which is a machine readable set of rules describing such things as what elements can be contained by an element, if the end tag is optional / required / forbidden, what attributes there are, etc.
[01:51]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: CSS is the presentation language for the WWW. Requesting a template that uses CSS implies that the template will not use any obsolete presentational markup (HTML should describe structure, semantics and relationships).
[01:52]<zyrzrrzyr>^yep
[01:53]<bugcrysc>Dorward, :-) thanks.. I am affraid, I will have to create my own template, because they do not have any suitable templates I would like
[01:53]<bugcrysc>Dorward, ah so I need a template supporting CSS to be able to create a desing of my need
[01:53]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: It also implies that it won't use any semantic markup for the default presentational effects it has. e.g. blockquote should mean "A quotation of at least one block of content" not "wider margins".
[01:54]<bugcrysc>is that correct please?
[01:54]<zyrzrrzyr>un, huh
[01:54]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK: all drupal templates will use css
[01:54]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Its possible to create a design using the aforementioned obsolete presentational markup - but its really not recomended :)
[01:54]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, the point is that it must use it correctly
[01:55]<bugcrysc>ah yeah.. so I need to figure out if drupal supports CSS1, and nothing else.. not CSS3 or whatever
[01:55]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: The CMS shouldn't need to explicitly support it. It just outputs content to which the stylesheet is applied.
[01:56]<bugcrysc>and what about menus? can those softimage like menus be created using CSS1?
[01:56]<bugcrysc>Dorward, of course... Drupal is a PHP code generating appropriate HTML.. and ......... maybe appropriate CSS? or CSS will just be written by me
[01:56]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: CSS 1 has only basic formatting. It doesn't do any layout. You'll need CSS for that.
[01:57]<mjzwzzm>CSS 2 I mean
[01:57]<bugcrysc>ah.. at least CSS2 then.
[01:57]<bugcrysc>uff.. I will have to learn many new things
[01:57]<mjzwzzm>Drupal almost certainly won't be generating CSS. You just write your stylesheet, then modify the template to point to it with a <link> element.
[01:58]<bugcrysc>so I will create a file in CSS code, that would contain CSS classes, and I would call them like .Menu1_12 for example from within HTML code
[01:58]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: While it is /possible/ to create something like the softimage menu using just HTML and CSS, it won't do drop downs on IE and will have accessibility issues. You need to throw some JavaScript into the mix for that kind of dynamic effect. Generally I'd avoid drop down menus, they are usuall more trouble then they are worth.
[01:58]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, basically
[01:59]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK: and, in a website, they are basically a sign of bad design
[01:59]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: CSS doesn't actually have classes (although its a common mistake). HTML has classes. CSS has class selectors (among other types of selectors) that can pattern match against HTML classes.
[01:59]<wg22gg>unless a user is using your website daily
[01:59]<bugcrysc>are dropdown menus a sign of bad design? what a surprise..
[02:00]<wg22gg>Dorward: hmm that's a slightly fine distinction :)
[02:00]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, yes ... because they make the user search for what s(he) wants
[02:00]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK: whereas s(he) can easily scan a list of links
[02:00]<mjzwzzm>webben: Its quite an important one. It is amazing how much time people waste trying to apply OOP concepts to CSS. :)
[02:00]<mjzwzzm>webben: Especially since CSS does have inheritance :)
[02:01]<bugcrysc>is a good website very simple one, lacking all the modern art features, lacking Flash effects, and having really simple menus for fast navigation?
[02:01]<wg22gg>Dorward: yeah i guess you're right
[02:01]<bugcrysc>indeed, are not such sites boring then?
[02:02]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, depends on whether the content is boring
[02:02]<bugcrysc>ah, so not the desing, but the content is important - of course
[02:03]<bugcrysc>I would wish to have a site, when a visito would say "wow, what a beautiful site"
[02:03]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Simple is good - but that is true of everything. Art is good, so long as it doesn't detract from the content. Flash effects can be good, especially if some animation can help describe the message better (OTOH spinning, flashing, blinking, noisy Flash in the corner is just a distraction).
[02:03]<mjzwzzm>BunkaiSK: Beauty is fine, you just have to be careful that it tells the message and doesn't hide it.
[02:04]<wg22gg>BunkaiSK, examples of CSS design: http://www.csszengarden.com/
[02:04]<wg22gg>(not all great, but shows what you can do by applying different css to the very same html)
[02:04]<bugcrysc>I understand..
[02:04]<bugcrysc>webben, yep, I have it open...
[02:04]<bugcrysc>the fiele..

Back to #html
Or go to some related logs:
#gentoo
#gentoo
#cisco
#netbsd
#gentoo