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[20:21]<svjgncdlxnz>but if your users don't know you from IRC, you'll need to annote that for them
[20:21]<wg22gg>can't remember exactly what my plan was
[20:21]<wg22gg>but i think i would have eventually made "marketing" for example into a hyperlink
[20:22]<svjgncdlxnz>never forget the infinite chasm of stupid which is your user
[20:22]<svjgncdlxnz>if there's a way to misunderstand you, they will find it
[20:22]<wg22gg>but i never got around to finishing the draft for my marketing page
[20:22]<wg22gg>it's a bit lame atm
[20:23]<wg22gg>in fact that's right thinking about
[20:23]<wg22gg>because originally i was going to write up something on every single one of those topics
[20:24]<wg22gg>standards, accessibility, etc would all get their own page
[20:24]<svjgncdlxnz>i'd show you my page to set you straight, except of course that my page is a lot worse
[20:24]<wg22gg>StoneCypher, lol, i'm sure it's not :)
[20:28]<mucn2jmd>Hello, could I call some HTML code from one page without writing it down in the page? I want to put the same menu on every page and I found repeating them in all html files a waste of space.
[20:29]<wg22gg>dukebody, yes, lots of ways to do that
[20:29]<mucn2jmd>webben: The simplest?
[20:30]<wg22gg>dukebody, maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Side_Includes
[20:30]<mucn2jmd>webben: Thanks :).
[20:31]<wg22gg>dukebody: np
[20:31]<mucn2jmd>webben: But that way needs special config of the web-server?
[20:32]<wg22gg>dukebody, *any way* will require that
[20:32]<wysxcrx>dukebody: you could use frames
[20:32]<wysxcrx>dukebody: no server config, menu in only one page
[20:32]<wg22gg>bleh
[20:32]<mucn2jmd>Yes wishkah, but I don't like frames :P, sorry.
[20:32]<wysxcrx>yeah, they're uncool, but they'll do what he wants
[20:33]<mucn2jmd>Yes.
[20:33]<wysxcrx>any other way will require admin access to the server
[20:33]<mucn2jmd>I think there could be a way without admin access to the server, as css include :).
[20:33]<wg22gg>eh? no
[20:33]<wg22gg>dukebody, find out whether your server supports SSI
[20:34]<wg22gg>or PHP
[20:34]<wg22gg>or Perl
[20:34]<wg22gg>any of those will do what you want quite cleanly
[20:34]<mucn2jmd>Yes! It supports PHP.
[20:34]<wysxcrx>well, then use that
[20:35]<wysxcrx><?php include("menu.html"); ?>
[20:35]<wysxcrx>IIRC
[20:35]<mucn2jmd>Ok, thanks wishkah :).
[20:35]<wg22gg>http://uk2.php.net/en/include/
[20:36]<nddfdfjvn>Is there an easy way to do a Rich Text Box, like phpnuke, etc? I'd like to be able to have users have multiple colors, line breaks, bold, underline, etc in a text box.
[20:41]<nddfdfjvn>anyone?
[20:42]<wysxcrx>emilylove: I am not certain, but I think there is no _simple_ way to do that. AFAIK this requires applets
[20:42]<wysxcrx>plus, I bet those are commercial
[20:44]<nddfdfjvn>wishkah: figured...actually #javascript just pointed out tinyMCE..although its waaay overkill, it is open source
[20:46]<jj-w>strip stuff? :p
[20:46]<wysxcrx>yeah, start a project nanoMCE :)
[20:46]<jj-w>lol
[20:46]<jj-w>pikoMCE
[20:46]<wysxcrx>emilylove: if you feel it's too bloated, maybe others do too. that's what free software is about :)
[20:47]<wysxcrx>emilylove: "that's what being a good person is all about", according to Stallman ;)
[20:47]<jj-w>on the webben-munching anything that is client side, is ultimately open source, ofcourse the licenses say different :)
[20:47]<jj-w>huh
[20:48]<jj-w>lol nickcompleter
[20:49]<nddfdfjvn>lol well it looks like a great product, just not what I need
[20:49]<svjgncdlxnz>stallman is an asshole
[20:49]<svjgncdlxnz>and one of the most destructive individuals in the history of software
[20:50]<svjgncdlxnz>the GPL is a fucking nightmare
[20:51]<wysxcrx>StoneCypher: what makes you say he's an asshole?
[20:51]<svjgncdlxnz>oh, having met him, having seen the damage he's done, reading his incoherent rants, etc
[20:52]<wysxcrx>I can't claim to have met him in person, and I have found him pretty extreme (consequential?) and dogmatic at times, but I cannot say I have disagreed fundamentally on many topics I've heard him talk on
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>okay
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>good for you
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>i can
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>the gpl is a ridiculously destructive mess which is ripping naive authors' good projects away from their largest contributors
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>namely, corporate interests
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>it's idiotic and childish
[20:53]<svjgncdlxnz>there's a reason that the count of major projects using GPL is so very low
[20:54]<svjgncdlxnz>and it's because corporations work on things that aren't hobbled instead
[20:54]<svjgncdlxnz>lgpl tries to fix the problems but fails
[20:54]<svjgncdlxnz>it takes the absurdist stance that whether a company can use a product should hinge on whether a library is made dynamically linkable
[20:54]<svjgncdlxnz>dynamic linkage is not available on 85%+ of platforms
[20:54]<wysxcrx>StoneCypher: and you would call the linux kernel and gcc compiler set non-major projects?
[20:55]<svjgncdlxnz>no, i'd call them the rare few
[20:55]<svjgncdlxnz>and yes, i'd say BSD is much more common than linux
[20:55]<svjgncdlxnz>and yes, i'd say that's why apple chose BSD, just like NeXT
[20:55]<svjgncdlxnz>gcc is a special case, besides; there's no reason to distribute it
[20:55]<svjgncdlxnz>you distribute things made in it
[20:56]<svjgncdlxnz>products have no need for embedding it
[20:56]<wysxcrx>I'd say there is an alternative here, for pragmatic and dogmatic people, the one group choses the gpl, the other chooses open source licences without these restrictions, and that's okay
[20:56]<svjgncdlxnz>haha
[20:56]<svjgncdlxnz>which one is pragmatic, pray tell
[20:56]<wysxcrx>pragmatism is over-valued
[20:57]<svjgncdlxnz>nonsense
[20:57]<wysxcrx>but this is not a discussion for #html
[20:57]<svjgncdlxnz>well sure, as soon as you've painted yourself into a corner
[20:57]<svjgncdlxnz>back in the real world, i'm aware of 26 UI libraries that aren't bound to an OS
[20:57]<svjgncdlxnz>things like nano-x, wxWidgets, fltk and so on
[20:57]<svjgncdlxnz>of them, the least well designed three are nano-x, wxWidgets and fltk
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>amusingly, the only three which are healthy are nano-x, wxWidgets and FLTK
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>why? because they're also the three which aren't ?gpl (or, in the case of FLTK, which have a repaired license)
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>so even though they're broken, buggy and disasterous, they're the ones which are winning
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>because the only people who put real work into them are companies
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>then there's this other library
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>it's called PicoGUI
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>it's been dead for three years
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>it's gorgeous
[20:58]<svjgncdlxnz>it has a tiny footprint
[20:59]<svjgncdlxnz>it's perfectly portable
[20:59]<svjgncdlxnz>it supports modern UI elements
[20:59]<svjgncdlxnz>but i can't touch it because it's GPL

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