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[00:00]<wjgcgu>after leopard ??
[00:00]<zznzmrd>Snarf
[00:00]<zznzmrd>then Cheetara
[00:00]<dzugcggdjguv>Woo!
[00:00]<wjgcgu>boo
[00:01]<z0wjz>ehhh... gregday is there a way to install/compile GIMP without xcode?
[00:02]<z0wjz>1G + ADC Signup seems not the preferred method
[00:02]<zjzr>r0xoR: yeah.
[00:02]<z0wjz>darwinports says it requires xcode
[00:02]<zjzr>r0xoR: there's a um... gimp app that just launches in x11
[00:02]<zjzr>somewhere
[00:02]<z0wjz>Zorg, i tried that one
[00:03]<zjzr>r0xoR: it should work, no?
[00:03]<z0wjz>Zorg, i have X11 running and i tried launching it and it just did nothing
[00:03]<zznzmrd>r0xoR: DP compiles Gimp, so, not from that way, no.
[00:03]<zyzxzzmp>r0xoR: instll xcode from your install media
[00:03]<zyzxzzmp>r0xoR: or do you have an OEM install of OSX?
[00:03]<zyzxzzmp>if so, the installers on the hard disk
[00:03]<z0wjz>RichardP, not sure... i've got three cd's i think
[00:04]<zznzmrd>everyone should have the dev tools installed though just because it's not a proper Unix without em :)
[00:04]<zyzxzzmp>r0xoR: of tiger?
[00:04]<z0wjz>RichardP, oh it's an old iBook and i wiped the system that *was* on there
[00:04]<z0wjz>RichardP, no Panther
[00:04]<zjzr>r0xoR: weird, works for me
[00:04]<drvvwnsvd>are the cocoaforge forums down?
[00:04]<zyzxzzmp>r0xoR: yeah it should be on the cds
[00:04]<z0wjz>Zorg, i'll try one more time for good measure
[00:04]<z0wjz>RichardP, ok, which one :)
[00:04]<zjzr>r0xoR: you have latest version of x11 right
[00:05]<z0wjz>Zorg, lemme check
[00:05]<zyzxzzmp>r0xoR: *shrug* its on there somewhere
[00:05]<zznzmrd>apple really needs to release a new x11.app based on Xorg
[00:05]<zznzmrd>maybe for leopard (yeah, right..)
[00:06]<zjzw>why? are there are real differences right now?
[00:06]<ggrzjsrg>just bought a kodak easyshare c310
[00:06]<ggrzjsrg>for $25
[00:06]<z0wjz>X11 1.0 ~ XFree86 4.3.0 (c) 2003
[00:06]<zznzmrd>Composite for one thing
[00:06]<wjgcgu>there is
[00:06]<zyzxzzmp>gregday: i have a feeling X11 is going to e extremely marginalised in 10.5
[00:06]<wjgcgu>compiste damage xrander etc..
[00:06]<z0wjz>Zorg, is that the latest version?
[00:07]<zjzr>r0xoR: no
[00:07]<zjzr>which might be why
[00:07]<zjzr>it didn't work
[00:07]<zjzr>it's 1.1 (I believe)
[00:07]<wjgcgu>according to past
[00:07]<zjzr>or that's the version i have at least
[00:07]<z0wjz>Zorg, there we go... weird... i downloaded that from Apple not more than a month ago
[00:07]<wjgcgu>there was a split between dev in X11
[00:07]<zznzmrd>RichardP: yeah.. apple starts a lot of things and tends to wait awhile before really changing them, and X11 isn't "sexy" and hugely marketable for much of their attention right now. it seems like a very cheap bone to throw out to attract unix fans
[00:07]<wjgcgu>good dev has gone to xorg, weird dev keeps on XFree
[00:08]<wjgcgu>that what i have understand, though i could be wrong
[00:08]<zyzxzzmp>gregday: X11 in a way subverts the market anyhow
[00:08]<wjgcgu>anyway X11 is shit
[00:08]<zznzmrd>RichardP: and bootcamp doesnt?
[00:08]<zyzxzzmp>gregday: no, bootcamp sells the hardware (how many people have saiud 'if it ran Windows, id buy one!')
[00:09]<z0wjz>subverts the market!
[00:09]<z0wjz>lol
[00:09]<zyzxzzmp>X11 doesnt really sell anything
[00:09]<z0wjz>wow... i forgot about the zealots :P
[00:09]<zyzxzzmp>noones bought apple because 'it runs X11'
[00:09]<wjgcgu>X11 sells all app running on it
[00:09]<wjgcgu>it is the same concept RichardP
[00:09]<zznzmrd>RichardP: that was part of my reason, that i could run a lot of my x11 programs on it
[00:09]<z0wjz>RichardP, yeah no sh8t, if X11 lets me run GIMP... bring it on
[00:09]<zznzmrd>RichardP: just because it's not /your/ reason doesn't mean someone else doesn't see the value in it
[00:10]<wjgcgu>in any case, X11 must be restarted from scratch, assuming retro compatibility for old X11 app, and new concept for avoid shitty things of actual x11
[00:10]<zyzxzzmp>all im saying is dont expect apple to expend a lot of resources on X11
[00:10]<z0wjz>Zorg, ummm, so where did you get version 1.1?
[00:11]<zjzr>on the tiger disc.
[00:11]<z0wjz>oh
[00:11]<z0wjz>dude, i have Panther
[00:11]<zjzr>.
[00:11]<zjzr>time to upgrade.
[00:11]<zznzmrd>RichardP: i dont at all, just because their windowing server is so much more advanced in other ways, but i dont at all think it "suberts" them. i dont think apple is twisting their own arm to include it
[00:11]<z0wjz>Zorg?
[00:12]<z0wjz>ummm... heheh the only reason I'm running Panther is because it was given to me for free by someone who already upgraded to panther... ain't no way I'm spending $100 for an OS... i'll put Ubuntu back on here before I do that
[00:12]<yz2mrvym>what stuff is required, other than the users data, to move an account from one machine to a new one?
[00:12]<z0wjz>at least installing the gimp doesn't suck on Ubuntu
[00:12]<zznzmrd>r0xoR: yeah but it's too bad gnome does ;)
[00:12]<zjzr>r0xoR: well you may have to compile it, not sure if that app thing will work
[00:12]<z0wjz>gregday, i don't use GNOME... i use OpenBox :)
[00:13]<zznzmrd>r0xoR: fair enough :) i prefer kde but minimal windowmanagers will always have a special place in my heart
[00:13]<z0wjz>ewwww... oh god... KDE is teh devil... segfaults all over... can't stand how it looks... ugly... yuck... Qt is evil too
[00:14]<pgjzmwq1>kde is stable for me. i use it at work every day for 10 hours and never have stability problems ever
[00:14]<z0wjz>any "desktop environment" that segfaults when i try to use the *control panel* is not very good IMO
[00:14]<wjgcgu>ubuntu sux
[00:14]<pgjzmwq1>the only thing that crashes is rxvt which is crashy itself
[00:14]<zznzmrd>r0xoR: kde is /hugely/ themable, more than any other desktop in the world, and i think segfaults are very much on a case by case basis :) I run kde from svn and i have no problems at all
[00:14]<z0wjz>fnord123, well that's been by experience more than once
[00:15]<wjgcgu>kde & gnome sux too
[00:15]<wjgcgu>so easy.
[00:15]<wjgcgu>so true.
[00:16]<z0wjz>gregday, that KDE has "more theming" than GTK2/GNOME2 is hard for me to beleive...
[00:17]<zznzmrd>r0xoR: they can both be made to look very nice and different from stock installs, but ive heard quite a number of people complain about lack of (rather, the removal of) options in gnome
[00:17]<zyzxzzmp><<%[indy]Muaddib>> I'm so in the closet, I'm practically in Narnia
[00:17]<zjzw>hahaha
[00:18]<z0wjz>gregday, well i don't do much GTK or Qt in my actual job... so I wouldn't be able to confirm either way... it's just hearsay afaic
[00:19]<v2j>the channel change and the increase to 5 mW was a good idea, my airport is currently stable :-)

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