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[00:00]<d2ysxjl>ffs
[00:10]<rraffsax>linux calls it ufs
[00:22]<lyllyag>does anyone here know css and html?
[00:23]<lyllyag>http://pip.one09.net/cgi-bin/pippijn/new/services/login.cgi
[00:23]<lyllyag>I know I should not use tables.. but I have them
[00:23]<lyllyag>how do I get this smaller?
[00:24]<lyllyag>oh nvm
[00:24]<lyllyag>found it
[00:28]<wxnnnyn>does anyone know if there is a consumer grade Wireless AP that NetBSD runs on
[00:31]<ugnw>pippijn: Why "not use tables"?
[00:31]<ugnw>It's ok, just keep your source valid.
[00:33]<lyllyag>Unex: yes but div is preferred
[00:35]<lyllyag>and it is perfectly valid
[00:35]<lyllyag>the tables
[00:35]<ugnw>pippijn: The page in your link is not valid. Your <form> is in wrong place ;)
[00:36]<lyllyag>no
[00:36]<lyllyag>it'snot
[00:36]<ugnw>pippijn: In fact, CSS right now is not so portable as tables. But it's good.
[00:36]<lyllyag>http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fpip.one09.net%2Fcgi-bin%2Fpippijn%2Fnew%2Fservices%2Flogin.cgi
[00:36]<lyllyag>it was, but not anymore
[00:37]<d2ysxjl>all that crap is just that, crap
[00:37]<ugnw>Well, now you fixed.
[00:37]<ugnw>:)
[00:37]<lyllyag>yes
[00:37]<d2ysxjl>html is poop, and you just layer more poop on the poop
[00:37]<lyllyag>ok
[00:37]<d2ysxjl>so you could say that webdev is a poop sandwich
[00:37]<lyllyag>but many people use it
[00:37]<lyllyag>and I want a chat site
[00:37]<d2ysxjl>many people use windows, that doesn't make it good :/
[00:37]<ugnw>"poop"?
[00:37]<lyllyag>so I have to use html
[00:37]<lyllyag>:)
[00:38]<lyllyag>mbishop: be happy I use perl and no php
[00:38]<d2ysxjl>I'd be happier if you used python, or better, lisp :)
[00:38]<lyllyag>no
[00:38]<lyllyag>perl and cgi married
[00:38]<d2ysxjl>heh
[00:38]<lyllyag>and I dislike python
[00:38]<lyllyag>for its markup
[00:38]<lyllyag>layout rather
[00:38]<lyllyag>I prefer {}
[00:39]<ducjg2j2>mbishop: which lisp implementation do you prefer?
[00:40]<d2ysxjl>for scheme (which I don't do much), I hear scheme48 is good, for common lisp, sbcl
[00:41]<dyszpyz_>paul graham used clisp
[00:41]<srrdrrg>yukonbob: Try Chicken, it rocks IMHO
[00:42]<srrdrrg>Mucho libraries
[00:42]<srrdrrg>Not the cleanest implementation, but certainly the fastest growing
[00:42]<ducjg2j2>misafir_: paul graham is evangalizing his own vapourware right now, afaik
[00:42]<d2ysxjl>yeah, I don't really know all the differences in the scheme implementations, but I hear scheme48 is good, as is the PLT stuff
[00:42]<d2ysxjl>yukonbob: arc :P
[00:42]<gwvf>hoy do i start grub using grub
[00:42]<dyszpyz_>:-)
[00:42]<ducjg2j2>mbishop: yup... that's it :)
[00:43]<srrdrrg>I don't really like PLT
[00:43]<srrdrrg>They're a bit braindead IMHO
[00:43]<dyszpyz_>nxvl what are you trying to do?
[00:43]<srrdrrg>Scheme48 is very good, but it isn't very well supported and builds a large heap right from the start
[00:44]<gwvf>i have grub installed on linux
[00:44]<srrdrrg>Chicken and PLT allocate memory as-needed
[00:44]<gwvf>and i have a NetBSD partition
[00:44]<d2ysxjl>plt has assloads of libraries though
[00:44]<dyszpyz_>nxvl, you only need to edit menu.lst from within linux
[00:44]<gwvf>i have done it
[00:44]<dyszpyz_>it may be under /boot/grub
[00:44]<gwvf>but i whink i havent do it right
[00:45]<gwvf> kernel --type=netbsd /netbsd
[00:45]<gwvf>thats what i have
[00:45]<ducjg2j2>?is PLT in pkgsrc
[00:45]<dyszpyz_>nxvl simply write the root for netbsd and chainloader +1
[00:46]<dyszpyz_>like this:
[00:46]<d2ysxjl>but personally, I don't like scheme very much, it's srfi and really really implementation dependant stuff is just meh
[00:46]<dyszpyz_>title NetBSD
[00:46]<srrdrrg>mbishop: Chicken has many more libs than plt
[00:47]<dyszpyz_>root (hd0,1) whatever
[00:47]<dyszpyz_>chainloader +1
[00:47]<gwvf>i will try
[00:47]<gwvf>brb
[00:47]<srrdrrg>yukonbob: see lang/{mz,dr}scheme for PLT and lang/chicken for chicken
[00:47]<ducjg2j2>sjamaan: thx --- /me has a few implementations loaded, but doesn't know the in/outs of ea... this is helpful :)
[00:48]<srrdrrg>yukonbob: Be sure to use emacs with paredit.el
[00:48]<d2ysxjl>for cl, sbcl is almost unanimously the best, runs on lots of archs/oses, and has all the stuff you could want
[00:48]<srrdrrg>That's excellent structure-like editing
[00:48]<d2ysxjl>cmucl is nice too, as is clisp, but sbcl still seems better
[00:49]<srrdrrg>I'm off
[00:49]<srrdrrg>Nite
[00:49]<ducjg2j2>sjamaan: g'night
[00:49]<srrdrrg>Happy Scheming/CLing
[00:49]<d2ysxjl>it's only 4:46PM :P
[00:49]<ducjg2j2>:)
[00:50]<dyszpyz_>:-) it's 12:48AM here
[00:50]<d2ysxjl>yukonbob: btw, http://mbishop.esoteriq.org/lisp-links.html
[00:50]<ducjg2j2>mbishop: thx --- I'll check that out...
[00:51]<ducjg2j2>I _know_ this is a holy war incitement, but why lisp versus scheme?
[00:52]<dyszpyz_>afaik lisp is "practical" and scheme is "minimal"
[00:52]<d2ysxjl>well, there's a lot of reasons for or against, but cl is "realistic" or "practical" and scheme is "pure" and "minimal"
[00:53]<d2ysxjl>basically scheme is very tiny, with only the basics of what you need, while cl is huge, having everything you could think of, cl also has more libraries linking it to "real world" things like sql and gtk and apache and stuff, while scheme is more pure, and you make your own functions for things
[00:56]<dyszpyz_>i gave up trying to learn lisp/scheme
[00:58]<d2ysxjl>pfft

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