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[00:24]<dyfjsg>evening
[00:45]<wxiaxoge>hello
[00:45]<o2nz>Jul 16 00:10:09 jeanny /netbsd: crime: cpu error 4 at address 4000008
[00:46]<wxiaxoge>I'm trying to figure out which *BSD would be best for a desktop PC
[00:46]<2rff>hello WhIcHOnE
[00:46]<wsduzp>lots of variables
[00:46]<txgcrg>desktop-bsd of course :)
[00:47]<wxiaxoge>TheCan: :) I was thinking out of the 4 Free/Net/Open/DFly
[00:47]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: I use NetBSD as a desktop. FreeBSD /may/ be more optimised for the hardware, but I don't want to have to learn another OS.
[00:47]<txgcrg>WhIcHOnE, guess freebsd has best x86 support
[00:47]<2rff>...and FreeBSD doesn't have NetBSD's community.
[00:47]<wxiaxoge>hm, how difficult is a netBSD install?
[00:48]<txgcrg>quite easy
[00:48]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: depending on your hardware, it can be a bitch.
[00:48]<txgcrg>openbsd is propably the hardest to install
[00:48]<zdgj>My dog installed NetBSD
[00:48]<2rff>Once it's installed though, it's great.
[00:48]<wsduzp>can't speak about x86, but it's pretty straight forward on newworld macs and not that bad on most oldworld
[00:48]<wxiaxoge>hm.. any issues with VIA chipsets?
[00:48]<2rff>xSmurf: I thought it would be much harder on a Mac.
[00:48]<wsduzp>dunno, I've never done the x86
[00:48]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: which chipset and which board?
[00:49]<wsduzp>but I've done two new and two old world
[00:49]<wxiaxoge>alright, what about package management?
[00:49]<wxiaxoge>netbsd uses pkgsrc right?
[00:49]<wsduzp>apart for the 6500 who's OF would crash when I typed commands, it wasn't that bad
[00:49]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: I use pkgsrc on NetBSD.
[00:49]<wsduzp>NetBSD macppc doc is extensive
[00:49]<wxiaxoge>ball: how diffrent is that from ports?
[00:50]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: I think ports is binary packages, but any more than that I couldn't tell you because I don't use ports.
[00:50]<wxiaxoge>ball: alright, I think I'll give NetBSD a try :)
[00:50]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: that's the best way to determine whether you're likely to like it.
[00:51]<2rff>(I think)
[00:52]<2rff>fwiw I like NetBSD.
[00:52]<wxiaxoge>What about desktops is the usual gnome/kde/xfce etc avalible?
[00:53]<2rff>I believe so. I like Blackbox though.
[00:53]<wxiaxoge>alright
[00:54]<wxiaxoge>is ndis avalible?
[00:54]<wxiaxoge>(Sorry if I'm asking way to many questions. :P)
[00:54]<lxrmvxry>apparently available under -current
[00:54]<2rff>I think that's something to do with using MS Windows drivers. I've never needed it, so I can't comment.
[00:54]<lxrmvxry>no idea about its stability state
[00:54]<2rff>(I run native drivers)
[00:55]<wxiaxoge>I don't think there are native drivers for my wifi card =[
[00:55]<lxrmvxry>also using open native drivers here
[00:55]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: which one? ;-)
[00:55]<wxiaxoge>Belkin F5D7000-B with some kind of atheros chipset
[00:55]<2rff>I know that some atheros adaptors are supported.
[00:56]<wxiaxoge>but it doesn't work with the FreeBSD built in kernel driver
[00:56]<2rff>You may need a custom kernel. It's worth a try.
[00:56]<wxiaxoge>or at least I have no clue how to make it work :-\
[00:56]<lxrmvxry>hmm that model not listed under ath(4) on netbsd-3 though
[00:56]<lxrmvxry>try it out
[00:56]<lxrmvxry>does dmesg show ath?
[00:56]<wxiaxoge>no not on FreeBSD
[00:57]<wxiaxoge>it worked with ndis, although it had some horrible errors about the bssid failing to set
[00:58]<2rff>Come to think of it, my Linksys probably has atheros.
[00:59]<wxiaxoge>it shows up on slackware here as Atheros Communications Inc. Unknown Device 001a
[01:02]<2rff>hello fbsd1
[01:02]<wxiaxoge>phadthai: how would I go about installing ndis w/o an internet connection?
[01:03]<p2smw>hello ball
[01:04]<lxrmvxry>you might need to download a binary -current snapshot via ftp and burn it on a CD along with sysinst 2.88MB floppy used as el-torito boot disk when creating the CD image...
[01:04]<wxiaxoge>hm ok, sounds complecated :|
[01:05]<lxrmvxry>hmm I think I once saw docs on the site describing the process
[01:06]<lxrmvxry>http://netbsd.org/Documentation/current/
[01:06]<lxrmvxry>hmm I don
[01:06]<lxrmvxry>'t see procedure there to make a cd though
[01:07]<lxrmvxry>that's manual upgrade to -current using a previously installed netbsd system
[01:07]<wxiaxoge>=[
[01:08]<lxrmvxry>but basically, if you put all the snapshot files in same order on the CD, and specify to mkisofs the el-torito image of the 2.88MB floppy disk in it it should make a bootable image
[01:08]<wxiaxoge>hmm, 2.88MB floppy?
[01:08]<wxiaxoge>All my floppys are 1.44MB =[
[01:09]<lxrmvxry>yeah usually a 2.88MB image is used to make bootable CDs
[01:09]<grlpvjg>WhIcHOnE: ye we all know you arent 1337
[01:09]<lxrmvxry>el-torito simulates a floppy boot
[01:09]<grlpvjg>:p
[01:10]<lxrmvxry>or actually, el-torito allows to specify which image to boot so bios can boot it off the CD
[01:12]<lxrmvxry>ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/HEAD/200606220000Z/i386
[01:12]<2rff>WhIcHOnE: You might want to try 3.0 first, it should be easier (burn iso, boot CD...)
[01:12]<lxrmvxry>check INSTALL.TXT three
[01:12]<lxrmvxry>s/three/there/
[01:13]<lxrmvxry>oh hmm no mention of details to make CD there either though
[01:13]<lxrmvxry>but it's standard mkisofs + cdrecord commands of course
[01:14]<lxrmvxry>in those, ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD-daily/HEAD/200606220000Z/i386/installation/floppy/boot-big.fs would be the file to use as el-torito boot image
[01:14]<lxrmvxry>to specify in mkisofs
[01:15]<lxrmvxry>i.e. mkisofs -b installation/floppy/boot-big.fs -o image.iso -r -J files/
[01:15]<lxrmvxry>to create the bootable iso image
[01:16]<wxiaxoge>so I'll need 3 cds?
[01:16]<lxrmvxry>just one
[01:16]<o2nz>need a -current iso?
[01:16]<wxiaxoge>Ober: trying to figure out how to get installed / working
[01:16]<wxiaxoge>phadthai: how just one?
[01:16]<lxrmvxry>Ober: yes he wants to verify if he can get ndis working for his wifi
[01:17]<lxrmvxry>WhIcHOnE: others are only for packages and are optional (although if connection-less for a while you might want to get the 3.0 CDs other than the first one, yeah)
[01:17]<lxrmvxry>but one CD would be enough to know if your ath can work under ndis
[01:17]<wxiaxoge>phadthai: I downloaded i386cd-3.0.iso
[01:18]<lxrmvxry>that's the one you would be replacing with he -current CD
[01:19]<wxiaxoge>ok so just put that iso away for now?
[01:21]<2rff>hello eeemess

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