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[00:00]<rrsjg2>jonsen: Whatever error that was, it was due to you not trying to install Tomcat properly, so it doesn't matter what it means, really.
[00:01]<slrnsajw2jd>jasonb: ok so maybe i'm confused on that point.. is GCJ different from running on eclipse's jdt?
[00:01]<slrnsajw2jd>tomcat's on top of gcj
[00:01]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: That's your problem, right there.
[00:01]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: gcj != Java.
[00:01]<slrnsajw2jd>gotcha, that's what jbalint was saying then
[00:01]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: gcj != jdt
[00:02]<slrnsajw2jd>ok
[00:02]<rrsjg2>gcj = b0rken. :)
[00:02]<slrnsajw2jd>i'm going to rebuild this then.. from scratch
[00:02]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: Just use my Tomcat RPM package set, not Fedora's..
[00:02]<slrnsajw2jd>have a link or repo for it?
[00:02]<rrsjg2>http://www.webdroid.org:8080/archives/tomcat-package
[00:02]<slrnsajw2jd>cool
[00:03]<rrsjg2>And, download Java SE from java.sun.com.
[00:03]<rrsjg2>There's an RPM of that as well.
[00:03]<rrsjg2>rpm -e tomcat5
[00:04]<ajgsgg>ok but with other jsf projects its the same error
[00:05]<rrsjg2>jonsen: Sounds like you're trying to build them. You shouldn't need to build any of this stuff.. it's platform independent Java. Just download the prebuilt binaries.
[00:05]<slrnsajw2jd>thanks jasonb... there isnt enough errata for this stuff on the net yet, so it's hard finding solutions for this stuff
[00:05]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: I'm working on that.
[00:06]<ajgsgg>but why cant i build projects?
[00:07]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: Once you install my Tomcat RPM, edit /opt/tomcat/conf/tomcat-env.sh and in there is a setting for JAVA_HOME. Set that to where your Sun Java JDK dir is.. probably /usr/java/something.. Then once you set it, save the tomcat-env.sh and it's ready to run.
[00:07]<rrsjg2>jonsen: If you are a developer, experienced enough to fix your own build problems, you can indeed build projects.
[00:07]<slrnsajw2jd>jasonb: thanks a ton
[00:08]<rrsjg2>jonsen: Until then, it's fine for you to download prebuilt binaries -- they'll run fine on whatever OS you want to run them on.
[00:08]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: You're welcome. I'm on and off here all the time, so feel free to ask questions in here. I'll answer when I can.
[00:09]<ajgsgg>but i wanna make my own u know?
[00:09]<rrsjg2>Then the way to do that is to spend the time to learn to be a Java developer.
[00:10]<slrnsajw2jd>great.. i'm sure i'll have some.. my company is moving everything open source and we have about 15 more apps to pull over
[00:10]<rrsjg2>Start reading http://ant.apache.org
[00:10]<rrsjg2>spaescowboy: Cool deal.
[00:18]<slrnsajw2jd>jasonb: that was it for sure.. i'm now getting some good debug
[00:23]<rrsjg2>Of course that was it. :)
[00:23]<rrsjg2>hi yassine.
[00:24]<slrnsajw2jd>yassine: was that enough detail that i sent?
[00:24]<drssygn>hi folks
[00:24]<drssygn>hi jasonb how are you doing mate ?
[00:25]<drssygn>spaescowboy, i still di not get your mail :s
[00:26]<rrsjg2>yassine: I'm just fine now. Heading for a 2 week vacation next friday to go see the next space shuttle launch. :)
[00:26]<drssygn>i hope you will pick some nice pictures for me jasonb
[00:27]<slrnsajw2jd>yassine: hmmm i'll take a look
[00:27]<drssygn>jasonb, btw i will switch to this system i think . www.xwiki.org (a kind of recoding of wikimedia in java)
[00:29]<rrsjg2>yassine: Daisy isn't working well enough?
[00:29]<drssygn>no its not the point its good even vereygood
[00:30]<drssygn>but when you need to transprt 200 kg you dont need a truck
[00:31]<rrsjg2>yassine: xwiki uses velocity.. ugh. And, it's LGPL.
[00:36]<r2rfygv>Mediawiki is pretty good.
[00:36]<r2rfygv>jasonb: why dont you like lgpl?
[00:36]<rrsjg2>yassine: hehe! I like the top example xwiki site: http://mavenbook.xwiki.com/xwiki/bin/view/Main/WebHome
[00:36]<drssygn>jasonb, im confused i dont have really too much time to spend it on daisy alone
[00:36]<drssygn>if someone want to help so that would be better for all of us i hoope
[00:37]<rrsjg2>I like how that example has broken/missing wiki content.. :)
[00:37]<drssygn>:s
[00:38]<rrsjg2>jbalint: My opinion is that LGPL and GPL do not apply to Java code because the terms of the license are incompatible with how Java works.
[00:39]<rrsjg2>jbalint: Also, my interpretation of these licenses means taht using GPL'd or LGPL'd code inside the same JVM with non-GPL'd code should force all of your code to be either GPL or LGPL.
[00:39]<r2rfygv>Which parts specifically? I just go by GPL = use unless there is code involved, eg. web app, server component, etc. LGPL = fine to use the library
[00:39]<r2rfygv>Oh, I see....
[00:40]<rrsjg2>LGPL = Library GPL.. so in Java, what's a library?
[00:40]<rrsjg2>Even worse, how bout if we exactly define the boundaries of a "library"..
[00:40]<rrsjg2>There is no such definition.
[00:41]<rrsjg2>GPL says that if you "link" against it, your code must also be released under the GPL. Everything in the JVM "links" against everything else in the JVM -- at least code that is used together.
[00:42]<drssygn>any supprter for daisy around here ?
[00:42]<drssygn>:)
[00:42]<r2rfygv>Well, IMO using , or even extending classes of a library (considered use) is within the bounds of linking. But once you modify the code in the dist and have to build a jar new then it's the viral clause.
[00:42]<r2rfygv>jasonb: Yes, well distribution comes in too. So if I distribute without XXX GPL program and then have the user add it, it's ok.
[00:43]<r2rfygv>I pretty much stay away from GPL stuff for libraries, only use LGPL.
[00:43]<rrsjg2>jbalint: That's not true. In the GPL there is a clause stating that if the program you're distributing cannot run without the GPL'd portion, then the entire work must be GPL'd if you're redistributing it.
[00:44]<r2rfygv>OK, haven't seen that part. But if you consider the os like the jvm, in that all programs run together (eg. linked at runtime) on the OS, it's very similar to the jvm.
[00:44]<rrsjg2>jbalint: And, LGPL is about as viral since the terms ignore how Java works, so the terms were written with other languages in mind (this is intentional), and so any way you want to interpret the terms of the LGPL in a Java context will end up meaning that your own code needs to be released under the LGPL as well if you're using it with LGPL'd code.
[00:45]<rrsjg2>jbalint: There is certainly a parallel in the Java context between the OS and the JVM, but nothing in the GPL says anything about allowing you to treat it that way. The GPL ignores everything Java specific.
[00:46]<rrsjg2>jbalint: So, even though you could treat the JDK as the operating system that the GPL refers to, and it may even make some sense that way, you can't legally.
[00:46]<drssygn>jasonb, the licence agreement of daisy are better that the one of xwiki ?
[00:46]<r2rfygv>So there are no say either way, whether to treat LGPL code as linking in the JVM or not?
[00:47]<rrsjg2>yassine: Yes.
[00:47]<drssygn>mhh
[00:47]<rrsjg2>jbalint: No. It's completely unclear in the license, so it's 100% up to a judge to interpret what it means, and the judge isn't a Java developer.
[00:48]<rrsjg2>jbalint: And, the FSF/GPL/LGPL promoters will tell you, "well, what we meant was xxx" but since it isn't in the license agreement, then what they're saying is outside the scope of the license.
[00:48]<rrsjg2>(which constitutes a separate license, of different terms than the GPL/LGPL)
[00:48]<rrsjg2>So the real license there isn't even the GPL or LGPL then.
[00:49]<rrsjg2>It's whatever they're saying they interpret the GPL/LGPL to mean in a Java context.
[00:49]<rrsjg2>And, that varies from person to person.
[00:49]<rrsjg2>So, it's a complete wreck.
[00:50]<rrsjg2>yassine: http://cocoondev.org/daisy/44.html
[00:50]<r2rfygv>Hrm, I see.
[00:51]<rrsjg2>jbalint: Beware here that few people agree with me on this.. either because they ONLY use non-GPL/LGPL'd code and don't care, or because they're promoters of the GPL or LGPL licenses.
[00:51]<rrsjg2>jbalint: But, these issues have been discussed numerous times in depth over lots of mailing lists.
[00:52]<r2rfygv>I'm not a big fan of those licenses to begin with, but whatever. Thanks for the info though.
[00:52]<r2rfygv>It's interesting though, because there seem to be quite alot of lgpl java libs out there.
[00:52]<rrsjg2>Richard Stallman really dislikes Java (only because the "good" implementations were never released under his license(s)). And, so he made sure to ignore Java completely when revising the GPL and LGPL.
[00:53]<rrsjg2>Most developers spend just about zero time trying to understand these licenses. They pick one that sounds good and put it on their code and it's a done deal. So, with just about all of Linux being GPL'd or LGPL'd I'm not surprised to see so many Java developers just putting one of those licenses on their code.
[00:53]<rrsjg2>But, they do not understand the implications.
[00:54]<drssygn>anyone of you have a clue what this execption is telling : http://forums.liferay.com/index.php?showtopic=5522
[00:54]<drssygn>i just can not wait until some of them guys there have an idea :)
[00:55]<drssygn>the last part
[00:55]<luacj>Licensesschmicenses. I think that everyone should give me their money and phone numbers to their good looking sisters
[00:56]<luacj>err.. did I just write that?
[00:59]<rrsjg2>yassine: http://www.jroller.com/page/jgani?entry=java_lang_nosuchmethoderror_org_apache
[00:59]<rrsjg2>pucko: Hehe!

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